"Pro-life" legislator likens women to cows


25 comments posted
It's just an analogy

The guy was making a farm analogy. Making a big deal about it only shows one thing: that you've never been to South Dakota before.

This isn't worth making a stink over.

Ed's picture
Posted by Ed (not verified) on 8 January 2006 - 1:43pm
are you really that stupid?

I don't care if he's a hick from farm country or not, he said a woman is worth more when she's carrying a man's progeny. He compared women to property.


Madman in the Marketplace's picture
Posted by Madman in the M... on 8 January 2006 - 2:09pm

The guy was indelicate, but he was fundamentally correct. Every society places a higher value on the life of a pregnant woman than on the life of a nonpregnant woman. Every society. If you doubt this, look at how preganant women are treated. They receive deferential treatment. Also every society's emergency teams will save pregnant women before nonpregnant women.

Admittedly, the analogy will not gain him friends outside of South Dakota, but the guy is correct. It has nothing to do with property. Since all societies, regardless of base culture value pregnant women, I'd say you are looking at some serious genetic hardcoding.

Southern Male's picture
Posted by Southern Male on 8 January 2006 - 2:41pm
and since

patriarchical hunter/gatherer societies have treated women as incubators WE must continue to treat them as such? Slavery was "hard coded" into a lot of societies as well.

Indelicate or misogynist? I'm supposed to be "understanding" of some benighted hick asshole but women who demand their own autonomy are treated as though they're "shrill" or "baby killers" or patronized and treated as though they are stupid and being taken advantage of by greedy abortionists.

Nope, not cutting assholes like him slack. He's a hateful asshole. He looks at women as less-than. Fuck him. Fuck those like him. Far too many people have been far too "understanding" of dickheads like him. I refuse.

Madman in the Marketplace's picture
Posted by Madman in the M... on 8 January 2006 - 4:28pm
Big leap

You are making a helluva leap in accusing this guy of all these motivations. He could have them , but since you have only one rather innocuous quote to go on, you are accusing someone without evidence. It appears that you are imposing your own views of how you think he should act on the guy without enough evidence. He never said anything "shrill" or even mentioned 'babykillers'. You are imputing motives to the guy that there just aren't enough facts to sustain. He definitely didn't say anything hateful. At least not in this quote. It appears the hate lies in you.

The same applies to your snide reference to patriarchal hunter/gatherer societies. You didn't bother to refute the statement, you just derided it. I challenge you to find a society that doesn't place a higher value on pregnant women. Patriarchal, matriarchal, communist, secular humanist, fascist and capitalist all do.

Southern Male's picture
Posted by Southern Male on 8 January 2006 - 4:42pm
Well "Southern Man"

I grew up for part of my childhood in farm country. I've known lots of these men, and I know how they think. That this man is also an anti-woman activist is all I need to know.

As for the hate in me ... darn tootin', I've got plenty. I'm sick of listening to the whining, the bitching, the misogyny, homophobia and bigotries of ignorant white men who are unwilling to face the fact that the world changes. I'm sick of ignorant Americans who can't seem to grasp that we're ALL less free when some of us aren't free. I'm sick of being told to be tolerant of ignorant statements like this one, and it deserves nothing more than derision.

So, "Southern Man", so proud of your heritage of hatred, slavery, oppression and christian bigotry, of a culture where Friday football matters more than science, fuck off. Yes, the hate is in me. I wear it as a badge of honor. For too long progressives who've been willing to work for a more inclusive future have been far too tolerant of groups of people who already have so many advantages, of people who press those advantages to prevent others from developing to their full potential.

You stomp all over every thread here with basically the same argument over and over again, that we have to "understand" the bigots and morons who vote Republican. That they have "legitimate concerns". Tired of hearing it. If I want to read crap like your's, I go read "Bull Moose's" blog.

Madman in the Marketplace's picture
Posted by Madman in the M... on 9 January 2006 - 10:34am
Hate doesn't accomplish much

Hate isn't very useful. Unless of course you've managed to tie it to a large military organization, which you haven't. My point, that you consistently fail to grasp, is that we no longer have the votes to continue to indulge in the joy of hating, reviling and ridiculing our opponents. In case you didn't notice the prochoice movement suffered a tremendous loss in the 2004 elections.

The trend for the last 20 years has been a continuing wave of legislative activity designed at limiting choice. It has been remarkably successful. Virtually no prochoice legislation has been passed in a long time. The prochoice side has been on the defensive. We have been getting our asses handed to us legislatively. This has not been a total disaster because the prochoice movement has always relied on judicial activity to establish and maintain our position. However, with the loss of the Supreme Court, judicial activity will turn against choice and we will have to win legislatively.

Given that anyone can get a copy of the nice t-shirt that shows which counties voted Republican and those that voted Democrat, we are in trouble unless we can convince voters outside our core base to support us. Frankly, your hatred and vitriol wouldn't convince anyone to support you. So unless you want to devote the next 20 years to whining about why the USA has quashed the prochoice movement I suggest you grow up, get over your hatred and learn how to convince other people of your opinions. Reviling their intelligence and culture won't succeed.

You live in a democracy. In the end, the only rights that you have are those rights that you can convince your neighbor you deserve. They can always pass laws or amend the Constitution to add or take away any rights you think you have. The prochoice side is doing a lousy job of convincing. Self righteous proclamations we have plenty of,successful campaigning...virtually nil.

Southern Male's picture
Posted by Southern Male on 9 January 2006 - 3:42pm
While you were sleeping

Shit happened. This is 2006, not 2004.

media girl's picture
Posted by media girl on 9 January 2006 - 4:30pm

hate has remade this country in the Right's image. They made "liberal" a term of derision and hate. They've stoked the fires of homophobia, and used code words like "welfare queen" to foster racism.

The prochoice movement loses b/c both parties have abandoned it. "Safe, legal and rare" is NOT the same as saying that women should be free. NOT AT ALL. The largest bloc of elegible voters in this country are those who've abandoned the system because NEITHER party speaks to them.

We've been abandoning our core base for years. Notice that black voters largely stayed home in 2002 after 2000 made it manifestly clear that the Democrats don't give a fuck about what happened to them in Florida. Now, with Ohio and Katrina behind us, what makes you think they'll come back? Gays aren't even a considerations, as cowardly as this party is about actually fighting for the idea of "equal under the law". That leaves women, and with and increasing number of former Republican anti-woman "democrats" being pushed by Chuck and Emmanuel, why should they fucking bother?

The DLC myth of the poor "centrist" voter is just that, a myth. The demographics of this country are changing. We are rapidly becoming more and more diverse. Who will speak for that changing population? Both parties currently pursue tactics that suppress the vote and limit debate, more concerned with protecting incumbants. Only the right actually fights for anything.

So fuck your centrist voters, and fuck apologists like you. I'm not a politician, and I don't have to be nice. The right has done just fine being openly hateful to millions of people, and I'm sure you and your fellow trolls will be just fine no matter how hateful I am toward you. I hate what this country has become. If you don't like it, go post somewhere else. All you do is repeat DLC crappola anyway.

Madman in the Marketplace's picture
Posted by Madman in the M... on 9 January 2006 - 4:34pm
To Madman, and to the other.

Great reply, Madman! There are farms all over the place, but not everyone sells human children just yet. I guess this is the next attrocity for the repukeicans to try to start. Any butthole tries to tell you you don't know about animal husbandry, or humanity, respond in kind. Regards.

Brad Turner's picture
Posted by Brad Turner (not verified) on 8 January 2006 - 2:44pm
Remove Your Pole, Please

The one up your butt, that is. It's spazzes like the lot of you that make the left look like lunatics.

Elitist lunatics, at that.

If we want to flip red states blue, we need to understand where the red staters are coming from. You all acting like whiney spazzes at the drop of a hat, doesn't help us.

Are you all just first year college students fresh out of your first Women's Studies class?

Ed's picture
Posted by Ed (not verified) on 8 January 2006 - 9:36pm
Are you ever not rude?

You hit it out of the park with that comment. Every line is meant to bait and inflame.

With your sort is there is no "us" around here, so drop that crap.

Marisacat's picture
Posted by Marisacat on 8 January 2006 - 10:26pm
You don't want to win againt

You don't want to win againt the right. You just want to fight the right. As such, you are worthless to what we in the left are trying to accomplish.

Attackng men like this for comments like this will not get South Dakotans to vote for Democrats. You're showing an inability or an unwillingness to understand the people this man is trying to speak to.

It's elitist and why we have problems in the west and midwest.

Ed's picture
Posted by Ed (not verified) on 9 January 2006 - 8:38am
Laughable assertions

You're a leftist? Really? Then why are you so afraid of "elitist" labels? Calling people elitists isn't going to change any minds. Or are you a cowering leftist, afraid the Republicans won't like you?

Meanwhile, most people are not aware of the attack on reproductive rights happening in this country. And condescending remarks by twits like this deserve being pointed up. It all needs to be pointed up. Let it all shine in the light of day and let people decide.

No, what's really worthless are your persistent attacks on the left. And you claim to be a leftist. Go sell it to Rush.

media girl's picture
Posted by media girl on 9 January 2006 - 10:35am
blah blah blah

No, we don't want to win by capitulating to ignorance. What you call "elitist" I call "educated" ...

South Dakotans vote out of the bigotries against Indians, their superstions over fetuses and their selfish reliance on crop subsidies.

Madman in the Marketplace's picture
Posted by Madman in the M... on 9 January 2006 - 10:39am

I really hope I didn't sound like this back when I was in academia. You all really need to pull your heads out of your asses. And you need to go meet some people outside your comfort zone.

Not everyone on the right is some monster. Not eveyone who voted for George W. Bush is an idiot.

South Dakotans vote the way they do because of a lot of factors. Dismissing them all as bigots and selfish is ridiculous. And counter-productive. And yes... elitist. Implying South Dakotans are "uneducated" is elitist. You think a farmer doesn't know a million things that you, for all your "book learnin'", don't?

You realize you all sound like Republicans? You don't want to understand. You don't want compromise. You want to fight and you want to destroy. That should be their gamebook. Not ours.

Ed's picture
Posted by Ed (not verified) on 9 January 2006 - 8:13pm
they chose war

it's time we start fighting it. The Dems have been "nice" and it's gotten us nowhere.

I was raised by a farmboy. I learned how to fix a car, plant a garden. I changed a transmission once on a '73 Chrysler. I quit doing those things when I got older because they bore the shit out of me. What I have no patience for is this demand that we don't call "bullshit" when someone says something so motherfucking ignorant and hateful.

If you don't like my tone, too fucking bad. Ignore me then. But don't expect me to be tolerant of this king of bullshit. I grew UP around this kind of bullshit. I know how very much of it grows out of fear and willfull ignorance.

Again I point out ... who's gamebook is winning?

Madman in the Marketplace's picture
Posted by Madman in the M... on 9 January 2006 - 8:56pm
Obviously you are a very

Obviously you are a very shallow person who has never made any mistakes and... quite frankly I think YOU should think about your words before you say them because Gordon Howie is obviously a lot better man than you will EVER be... and what do you do for a living.. because obviously you dont have as busy a life as him...

your name here's picture
Posted by your name here (not verified) on 18 January 2006 - 1:19pm
No Stink

I agree, there shouldn't be much made of this. Save your anger for more important things.

1 You shouldn't assume that humans are more important than cattle on this planet.

2 The miracle of life starting is awesome whether it is a seedling, bird chick hatching, or something squirting out of the birth canal.

3 Fight the more important fights.

Ricardo's picture
Posted by Ricardo (not verified) on 8 January 2006 - 5:02pm
Considering that this really

Considering that this really isn't a guys issue it doesn't matter whether you agree or not.

Some women may be offended some not, ither way thats their choice and not yours to decide. And some will not be offended by your comment either. I am. I'm ok with being offended by it too. I'm tired of the treading on womans autonomy. Just get off.

As for the revelation you offer on the miracle of life, we know, we create it. Thank you.

I think you're probably a swell guy but you would do civilization a great service if you spread your message to those who are war mongers and soilders by desire. They do not seem overly impressed with the miracle and beauty that life is and I think there is a coming genocide that we need to circumvent.

Please do good works.

Sandy's picture
Posted by Sandy (not verified) on 17 January 2006 - 7:17pm
And the point of your comment

...is to make the claim that I've never been to South Dakota? Oooh! Stop the presses! (And never mind whether it's true!)

media girl's picture
Posted by media girl on 8 January 2006 - 6:27pm
Dakotah representative's remarks comparing women to cows

For a long time, as a medical professional, I have understood that many within the so-called pro-life movement are adamently involved in it because they do not value women and particularly women's independence to establish and control their own reproductive process.

This, is a prime example of how they really feel. A pregnant woman and a pregnant cow are both more valuable in this man's eyes, and especially, since he thinks BOTH SHOULD BE CONTROLLED BY HE AND OTHERS SUCH AS HIMSELF.

Brenda Thornton's picture
Posted by Brenda Thornton (not verified) on 8 January 2006 - 6:32pm
"Pro-life" legislator likens womyn to cows

Hey MediaGirl:

I'm on your side. This Dakota legislator is a jerk. But describing anyone who disagrees with you on this or that point as a dittohead Rush Limbaugh clone isn't going to win you any friends either. Frankly, I don't give a flying f**k if you, the Rethuglicans, or anyone else like me. We need to fight like hell against the kind of attitude this local ward-heeler of a politician represents, but we also have to fight smart as well as hard. I hope the other poster enjoys being hateful and puts that energy to good use. But I suspect it's more likely to backfire and cloud the clear thinking needed to defeat that clown at the polls, and send him back to the farm where he belongs.

Philimus's picture
Posted by Philimus (not verified) on 9 January 2006 - 4:51pm
the only way

to fight bullies is confront them.

Madman in the Marketplace's picture
Posted by Madman in the M... on 9 January 2006 - 5:00pm
Cow Pokes

If pregnant women are so valued by Repuglican men, how come creeps like Bill O'Reilly, Gingrich, Hyde, Neil Bush, Poppy Bush, Roy Blunt, Don Sherwood, Randall Terry, etc. make a point of cheating on and abandoning their wives when they're pregnant or suffering breast cancer FROM BIRTHING DAUGHTERS?! Did Scott Peterson value his pregnant wife?--maybe he freaked out over childbirth bladder and bowel tears that make 30-50% of all U.S. moms PERMANENTLY INCONTINENT! Ever wonder why all those chirpy Depends and Poise ads only target women wearers?? Wonder why GOP first wives are so mum about their humiliating divorces? Wonder why early Christian elders enforced "celibate" priesthoods to free men from the "FOUL EMBRACE OF PILES OF DUNG MOTHERS"?! Without hi tech medicine, childbirth kills 1 in 5 women, and most of the survivors are grossly maimed. Forcing women to risk early childbirth death benefits playboys and pedophiles by guaranteeing merry widowers fresh trophy wives and pedophiles plenty of abandoned, starving children. "Pro-lifers" leave no "pious" playboys and pedophiles behind. Sex tourists Neil Bush and Catholic priests hope "pro-lifers" will turn the U.S. into one big Bangkok, where they can bang their cocks with impunity. Please note Repugs place no wife or bishop notification restrictions on Viagra. "Pro-lifers" who use fetuses instead of fists to maim or murder unwanted women win my Scott Peterson Award.

Heil Mary's picture
Posted by Heil Mary (not verified) on 9 January 2006 - 8:00pm